A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

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Ernest
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Ernest » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:10 am

There has been great excitement in the media about the announcement of a vaccine which appears to protect 9 out of 10 people against the virus.

Shares has risen and speculation about it being an answer to prayers?

The government has ordered 40 million doses. This vaccine requires and initial dose and a top up dose two weeks later. Full immunity isn't guaranteed until the second dose.

There are issues about safety to be overcome and it awaits licensing. A huge logistic challenges is underway, it has to be kept below freezing so storage in GP premises will be an issues.

The government yesterday published a draft strategy for its deployment with a list of priorities, commencing with NHS and Social Care workers and those living in care homes. Then a graduated list based on those extremely clinically vulnerable, those clinically vulnerable and a descending list based on age, commencing with the over 85's, and downwards in five year groupings. The expectation being that those under 50 will be lower down the list.

I pray that this, and other vaccines will be deployed globally without favour to the western developed world, with an equal distribution to those countries in the developing world who are desperate for a vaccine. :votive1: :votive1:
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Caroline » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:14 pm

There is every reason to be hopeful on that score!

24th April 2020

"Countries from around the world today (Friday, 24 April) joined the UK in pledging to give everyone equal access to new coronavirus vaccines and treatments around the world. The move is aimed at boosting global supply of the vaccine, once one is approved for use, to help prevent a second wave of the pandemic....

This is an unprecedented global agreement between international health organisations and countries. It follows calls from the UK for the countries to work together, including at last month’s G20 meeting."
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Emle » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:48 am

That is wonderful news we must hope the means for administering the vaccine is also provided globally.
I listened to a report from a U.K. GP who said it would be impossible with her current heavy caseload to vaccinate everyone in her area without more people, such as receptionists, being trained up to administer it.
The logistics of temperature control, transporting, storing and and eventual defrosting of the vaccine before use are going to need careful management if we are to have as little wasted vaccines as possible.

This is an excellent article on the subject https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/07/ ... e-a-fridge

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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joe Parrish » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:35 am

The US enthusiasm so far is more for the Lilly antibody treatment for vulnerable populations, similar to one with which the President was treated. Due to the fiaco with an earlier fast developed vaccine that quadrupled cases of guillain-barre paralysis, vaccines developed with less than a three year safety experience are always suspect. Guillain-barre is theoretically curable, but a patient might need a ventilator for about 3-6 months until the body can build its defenses, and emergency treatment may be required. At least now there is a plentiful supply of ventilators.
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joe Parrish » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:24 pm

The MMR measles-mumps-rubella vaccine was developed in the UK and revised in the US in 1968 to reduce side effects. It is about 20 to 50 percent effective in reducing the severity of covid. So how does this worldwide-ly used vaccine look today? Here are some eye opening statistics: "...there were 869,770 cases of measles reported globally in 2019 — a 556% increase since 2016, when the world reported historic lows in both deaths and cases from measles, the highest total since 1996.

The estimated 207,500 deaths from measles in 2019 represented a nearly 50% increase from 2016 and an increase of close to 70,000 deaths over the 2018 total. [death rate is nearly 24 percent, compared with covid's 2 to 7 percent]

There were 120 cases per 1 million people, up from 18 cases per 1 million people in 2016."

So is this what we have to look forward to for covid 50 years from now?

https://www.healio.com/news/infectious- ... 4207982854
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joyce » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:38 am

I was seriously ill after my diphtheria booster in 1953. A little boy who had his booster at the same time died. My baby sister had her first or second jab at the time and she was fine.
I was never quite sure whether there was a bad vaccine batch or something about me which my classmate had too. I assume the former. My medical records for the time are surprisingly (!) missing. When I was an adult I worked for a time on Maternity and Child Welfare clinics which included open clinics for immunisation. There was a string of questions we had to ask the mothers before we gave the triple ( diphtheria, tetanus and whooping cough ) because there were conditions that made the whooping cough vaccine dangerous. We gave 'dip and tet' only to those babies. While I was working there I took the opportunity to have a smallpox immunisation so I could put the certificate in my passport. I swelled up like a ballon. The nurse and the doctor both said it was a good reaction rather than a bad one.I was off sick for over a week. On another occasion in one of the clinics I found a box of measles vaccine from a batch that had been recalled. Nobody had got around to sending it back.Imagine if all those doses had been administered by mistake.
The government has a compensation scheme for vaccine-damaged children. Trouble is,the damage is very hard to prove. I know one child whose case was accepted and had her fees paid at an independent special school where special teaching was available at any hour of the day or night. The other child I know received no help beyond a place in a LEA special day school because of her low IQ. The excuses the ptb made to dismiss the parents' claims were ridiculous in the extreme. I think it probably was a simple case of her having mistakenly been given a vaccine that was contra-indicated by her family history : someone didn't ask the right questions or someone didn't answer them properly.

I have not had any trouble myself with vaccines since 1970,touch wood. The chances of catching a deadly disease are far greater than those of having a bad response to a vaccine. Things can go wrong,however, so it's important to be cautious. For individuals the situation is 100% or zero, however rare it is.

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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Ernest » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:35 am

I suspect that the number of reactions reported to the relatively small pool of people who were given the vaccine and not a placebo isn't a reliable indicator of those receiving mass vaccination who will react adversely to it. It is a risk, but worse risk is catching the virus and dying.

I know that my spouse, following her stroke is now in the category of highly clinically vulnerable, while I am in the category below it. Our GP has said at a meeting we had with them, that we will both receive a vaccine when one becomes available, as in their view, it would be silly to vaccinate one of us, not both.

So hopefully, we will receive the vaccination when our turn comes from the priority list published by the Government. At that same meeting she personally made an appointment for us both to have the flue jab on the same basis. She also said that as we had both had the Pneumonia jab, and Jen had subsequently had pneumonia twice in two years, she wouldn't administer that variety of vaccine as it had proven not to work in Jen's case. But if a new variety comes online, that we will be called back for it.

I pray for those who might decide not to have the vaccination, because their risk will be unchanged and the virus will be around for a long time yet. :votive1:
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joyce » Sat Nov 14, 2020 7:23 pm

Ernest wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:35 am

I pray for those who might decide not to have the vaccination, because their risk will be unchanged and the virus will be around for a long time yet. :votive1:
Absolutely, Ernest. How long did it take to vaccinate away Smallpox from the planet ? Three hundred years or thereabouts ? Polio is still around in some parts of the world and measles still occurs even in the UK.

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Ernest
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Ernest » Sat Nov 14, 2020 9:03 pm

Agreed. I recall from Army Days having to be jabbed every so often for Smallpox, Polio, diphtheria, tetanus, hepatitis A,BC, , TB, Typhoid (Going overseas) Yellow Fever *every 10 years. Some going to the Gulf Wars were given additional jabs against NBC warfare.

One jab called TAB (given on entry and every 10 years after) to age 40. was particularly painful and on occasion toxic, and I refused it after age 40 for the simple reason that my Regular Army contract had terminated and I was on a Full Time Reserve Contract, which did not require me to deploy overseas. I can recall medics ringing me to book an appointment for it regularly and I declining it.

As a result being told that it could affect my ability to be deployed and I could be discharged etc, I had to point out time and time again that I wasn't a Regular Officer, I was an Army Reserve Officer on full time service with a contract which said UK only. Time and again I would resolve it, and a new MO would appear and check on the vaccination stats for those who would need to deploy and I would be picked up and start the process all over again.

So, I am happy to be vaccinated, but only if it is necessary for my health and wellbeing.
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joyce » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:22 pm

Don't blame you for refusing what you didn't need,Ernest. I remember when TAB and Cholera was required for civilians travelling to certain countries, even if only for a holiday. If they were lucky they were warned they'd need ten to fourteen days to rest and recover from having the jab, so it was a good idea to get it over with well in advance. If they were unlucky, nobody told them and they'd spend all their holiday sick and in pain.

I've heard of soldiers becoming chronic-sick through having too many vaccines given at once. They can be poisoned or suffer a too-fierce response by their own immune system.The Covid-19 vaccine apparently isn't made using a live or dead version of the virus itself, but a tiny bit of its RNA or DNA, so there should be no danger of anything like that.

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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Ernest » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:58 am

Yes, I suffered from side effects from both TAB and Yellow fever. i found a study by the Army Authorities on TAB from the late sixties which studied side effects and recommended changes to the administration of the vaccine. Given that i joined in 1967, a year after that study, I see no evidence that any changes to the administration regime, all the way through my service. And as I described the pressure on me to have the jab, was ongoing.

I wonder if anyone followed up that study to amend things, I doubt it though, given the evidence of my own experience.
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Ernest » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:39 am

More news of another Vaccine which promises and efficacy of 96 per cent. Lots of excited speculation in the media and shares in companies researching for vaccines, but reality check - the UK had only pre-ordered five million doses of this new, wonder virus and given that production will take months to ramp up, it won't be available until next Summer.

The scale of the task of vaccinating millions is not underestimated. It appears GP's will be the focus or the Armed Forces will be brought in to open clinics country wide to administer the vaccine, again, it will take time and training and a huge logistics effort to put this in place. And literally, hundreds of clinics will be needed, taking on thousands ot people to be trained and to run them. It is likely that reservists will be needed to be called out to assist. And medical reservists will have conflicts as so many of them work in the NHS.

In the meantime, the visus isn't going away, record increases in infections and deaths, not past the 50,000 mark, the highest in Europe.

I am not critical of the government, who've have faced a pandemic which will probably exceed the influenza pandemic of 100 years ago, by the time it is brought under control, but it is evident that it will never go away, just as flue has remained an evolving problem, year on year.

Prayers for all affected by the virus and those who've died. May they RIP and Rise in Glory. :votive1: :votive1:
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Emle » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:07 am

Ernest said

Prayers for all affected by the virus and those who've died. May they RIP and Rise in Glory. :votive1: :votive1:
Amen.

Prayers for all those working in any capacity to hopefully give us all a safer place to live and a world where Covid will no longer be at the tip of our tongues in every conversation. Amen

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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Pam » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:25 am

Emle wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:07 am
Ernest said

Prayers for all affected by the virus and those who've died. May they RIP and Rise in Glory. :votive1: :votive1:
Amen.

Prayers for all those working in any capacity to hopefully give us all a safer place to live and a world where Covid will no longer be at the tip of our tongues in every conversation. Amen
Amen :votive2: :votive1: :votive2:

My son was rather surprised to find that we (his parents) only come about 6th on the priority list for vaccine, after all the very old and infirm, and those working in care homes and medical care. My husband is statistician, and although he's been very alarmed about the rising numbers of infections at times, he's been assuring me for months that I'm not high risk. (I feel high risk because I usually catch every respiratory infection going round in the winter, despite having a flu jab every year).

An interesting bit of info about the Moderna vaccine is that the great Dolly Parton contributed to the funding of the research that led to it!

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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Ernest » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:55 am

High Risk is something we both live with. I am diabetic and over 70, so from the start of lockdown I had sheltered. Jen has had two bouts of serious respiratory illness in the past four years, had a stroke in July and has heart problems, so she is also in the highest category. She was back at work for two days a week in the MoD in a very highly covid19 secure environment, but at the start of this second lockdown she was furloughed until 3 December. Her employers have had two occupational health surveys done on her and have made adaptions to accommodate her disabilities - we can't fault them for their care and concern for her. She is working 16 hours (when not furloughed) i.e. two full days a week, Tuesday and Thursday. The intention being a staged return to full time from January, and that is likely to be one day a week added each month through to March 2021. One issue she has is she was judged as unfit to drive on her assessment a week or so ago, it turns out that she shouldn't have been called for the assessment until at least six months after her stroke, which would have been January 2021 at the earliest. So now she has to wait six months before she has another assessment. Her driving licence is now suspended and she can claim it back after another assessment. Our insurance company has been very flexible, they have made me the main driver for her car, while she is still registered as the owner and keeper. If it stays this way, I will get rid of my much older car and we will just have one car. If she gets her licence back, I will get a new car, electric or hybrid.

I am hoping that one or other of the vaccinations will become available for both of us early on in the program, given our categories of risk.
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Joe Parrish
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joe Parrish » Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:36 pm

Our friend recovered from the virus and three months later went to donate blood. She had only 8 percent antibodies left. They would not accept her donation for covid use.
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A Viable Covid19 Vaccine

Post by Joe Parrish » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:02 am

The problem with the vaccines is that their duration of action will be less than two months same as for those who contracted the virus such as the President so they give false assurance of protection. Hope is Lilly's antibody getting ramped up so all who need it can get it; the virus is mutating much too fast for a vaccine. I am praying public health officials understand the lack of protection of a vaccine.
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