Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

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corbin
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by corbin » Thu Jun 26, 2014 12:35 pm

If some people don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God, what happens to them after they die?

God Bless

Corbin

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Ernest
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Ernest » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:12 pm

corbin wrote:If some people don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God, what happens to them after they die?
I think that we've been over this ground before on one of the threads.

First: Christians don't have a monopoly on God, other faiths may have had God revealed to them in different ways and in different forms. We can't know whether this is genuine or not, in much the same way that we can't personally affirm, except through faith, that Jesus is the son of God. So, we can't judge whether those of other faiths will see God after death.

Second: May non-Christians, even pagans live exemplary lives to a standard of ethics and behavior that mirror that of Christians. How can we judge that they are not also living in God's grace?

Third: I believe in a merciful God, who won't exclude anyone from his Kingdom if they've never heard or accepted the name of Jesus Christ. If they live a good live, refrain from crime, and impurity, and treat others with love and respect, I'm pretty sure that they've earned the keys to the Kingdom of heaven.

Fourth: Christians believe that Jesus incarnation and ultimate death for us on the cross was redemptive and after his death, he descended to hell and freed all of the souls who'd gone before - generally described as reaming out the gates of hell. That redemptive act wasn't just retrospective, but also includes of billions of lives to come that might not ever know God through the life, ministry of Jesus Christ, but still life a life which is in accordance with the commandments and widely regarded ethics of humanity.

I'm sure that you'll have some sort of response that will contradict my views, and that others might well feel the same. But I express my own personal thoughts, which are based on the what we don't and will never know until we see the face of God for ourselves. All else is pure speculation. :thumbs:
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Joyce
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Joyce » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:36 am

corbin wrote:If some people don't recognize Jesus as the Son of God, what happens to them after they die?
If they reject the resurrection and the necessity for repentance and forgiveness of sins, do you mean, Corbin ?
Jesus makes it clear that He is the way, and that the job of Christians is to go into all the world and make disciples of all mankind. If we miss a few and thereby they don't hear The Good News, or some hear but don't believe, it is not our business to speculate on what God does about them. We should concentrate on what and whom we know is the truth and get on with the task we are given, which is quite big enough to be going on with.

corbin
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by corbin » Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:35 pm

Thank you Ernest and Joyce for your answers. I might have asked this question before Ernest but in a different context. Sometimes it's good to ask a question several times so one could a better clarification of the answer.

Richard11
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Richard11 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:24 pm

Can I suggest that the original question appears to assume that the important point of recognizing Jesus as the Son of God is that it affects what happens to us when we die.

What if the important bit of recognizing Jesus as the Son of God is that it changes how we live now and that is what God is really interested in. (You could ask the same question about other faiths as in - how does someone's faith affect how they live now?)

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Joyce
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Joyce » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:06 pm

Richard 11, you are right. Belief in the salvation made freely available by Jesus by His death and resurrection is the beginning. Our life spent on Earth in The Kingdom of God from that point onwards is lived in the consciousness of what Jesus did for us and who He was. Otherwise the epistles, the Old Testament, and what Jesus taught wouldn't be of any use. It doesn't make us sinless but it makes us aware and it affects our motives for what we do.

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Ernest
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Ernest » Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:41 am

I accept that when we know Jesus and accept him as the son of God than it will have implications for how we live, act, believe and our eventual salvation.

What I find difficult to accept is that those who've never known Jesus, who are born into a different culture and faith, are not also knowing God and are therefore denied salvation. :thinking:

God is all merciful. There is only one God, who has manifested himself to humanity, in the case of Christianity through the Jewish race originally and than through the Incarnation of his only son. My view of a merciful God is all encompassing in love for the whole of his creation, not one who ignores those who lead good lives within a different culture or belief.

I might be considered naive or even a heretic, but I'd rather be that than one who consigns everyone who doesn't believe the things that I do to perpetual separation from God. :brickwall:
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Beth
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Beth » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:07 pm

Corbin, I don't think we can say with practical uncertainty what will happen to any of us when we die. I believe in heaven, personally, but to many heaven has a bad rap exactly because it's divisive. I don't think we need to use heaven to guilt believers or non-believers. Perhaps we can't completely avoid this, but as Richard has said, we can keep our focus on what happened to Jesus when he left heaven and joined us on earth.

I've heard it said heaven should be abandoned as a concept because it creates tribalism and violent impulses toward those who don't share the vision. I won't go along with that fully. I believe heaven is a necessary part of Christian doctrine. But I think Richard and Ernest are right, we must be careful how we package our beliefs. For Christians the kingdom is nothing without the King, and the personal relationship is what gives us security in our walk toward eternity. Jesus was a very hopeful teacher who spoke in parables and mysteries. I like to think there'll be an element of "word" in heaven when these things will finally be made clear.

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Beth
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Beth » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:10 pm

I'm sure I wrote "practical certainly". How odd! What I meant was that no-one can know from experience what happens once we're dead. The norm is that it's pretty final.

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Ernest
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Ernest » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:45 pm

The concept of heaven being a shiny place in the clouds isn't something I subscribe to. There are various old testament and new testament allusions to heaven, particularly in Revelation. Just a couple:

(John 14:12)
1"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. 2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3"If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

(Psalm 23:6; Psalm 90:1)
"My Father's house" is the dwelling-place in which devout believing souls would abide forever."

(Isaiah 63:15; Deuteronomy 26:15),
"In the vast home filled by my Father's glory and lighted by his smile of recognition and reconciliation, in the high and holy place".

A New Heaven and a New Earth (Revelation 21:2-1:3)
"1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them".

I simply believe that the Kingdom of God is here and now and we're actually living in it. It's not perfect and won't be perfect until Jesus comes again and everything will be made new. The new heaven and the new earth are the perfection of the Kingdom of God and we will be with him forever.
Where there is hope and love there is life!
God is Life!
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God is Love!
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Joyce
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Jesus not recognized as the Son of God

Post by Joyce » Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:32 pm

Yes Ernest, not forgetting, 'This day you will be with me in Paradise' from Jesus' own lips to the repenting criminal crucified beside him.

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