Leaving the EU

[Ernest]

I am thoroughly fed up with the progress, or lack of it, of leaving the EU.

MP's seem to have abandoned common sense or any intention of voting in a way that could be seen as being "For the Greater Good", frustratingly, many of them are ignoring the risks presented by a "no deal" brexit while others seem intent on wrecking any progress towards exit, or to frustrate the whole process, using spurious calls for another referendum at huge cost and more division in the country.

I find myself praying for commonsense, in the hope that they will see sense, but they seem to have abandoned that totally.

Where are those who sense that unity and the greater good should be their priority? Sadly, only the PM seems to have any, and she has allowed her stubborn attitude to hamper any real prospect of an agreement.

Despair seems an apt word to describe the situation the UK finds itself in.

[Joyce]

I thought it was the other 27 of the EU, not our own PM, that were refusing to offer an agreement our parliament would like ? Perhaps we have different brands of TV or radio, Ernest ?
45 years ago the grumbles began about the other 9. Shops used the EEC as an excuse to put prices up and Farming Today on Radio4 every morning seemed to be about nothing but complaints about The Common Agricultural Policy, rioting Frenchmen burning vans full of our piglets or lambs, beef mountains, grain mountains, butter mountains and wine lakes. Once when I was on sick leave I was handed a packet of EC butter at the Post Office with my giro money ! Yes, really. I never received a bottle of wine though.
All that sort of thing seems to have died down over the years, or perhaps now I sleep a lot later I just don't hear it.
I would like to think we can expect to see an end to all the bickering and squabbling, but judged by the number of years it went on after we joined 'le six', it's likely to go on for a long time after we leave.

[Joe Parrish]

Praying for England, brexit, the EU and for a new understanding for all

[Ernest]

I recall the votes for Europe and Ted Heath's determination to join, despite the knock backs. When we voted to join the Common Market, I was actually serving in Belgium in the middle of the discussions, in a NATO Unit. Most of the than European service people seemed in favour of us joining, to cement relationships among EU countries, and to help see off the Russian Bear, that lurked behind the Iron Curtain. I was unsure, not knowing enough about it, so voted yes.

The Common Market morphed into something much bigger, wider than any of us could have ever imagine. Maggie, despite her credentials as a Euro-Sceptic, signed the Maastricht Treaty, and joined us in something we had not originally signed up for, but Parliament validated that decision.

The least they should be doing is to take responsibility for the process of leaving with the least amount of damage to our economy and the EU as well

We will need friends in this brave new world outside Europe, and we need to get on with rebuilding relationships at home and abroad, that have been soured by the whole leave/remain rhetoric.

Prayers for that

[Caroline]

Our Prayer for Our Country seems to get ever more urgent.

[Emle]

Praying for understanding on all sides and for a resolution that will alow us all to move on from these stagnant days.
May the river of life be fast flowing and full of hope.
Amen

[Ernest]

Praying for understanding on all sides and for a resolution that will alow us all to move on from these stagnant days.
May the river of life be fast flowing and full of hope.
Amen

Amen indeed

[Ernest]

The latest developments on leaving are now an extension of the Article 50 (Leave date) to April or May 2019, dependent upon what Parliament decides on a proposed vote next week on the "Deal" agreed previously by the PM with the EU, as amended on various discussions between both.

The media today is predicting that the vote will not take place if the PM believes that it will not be passed by the House of Commons.

Somehow it all seems so desperate and last minute. And questions how we allowed ourselves to get where we are now?

Prayers are needed for commonsense and unity in the House of Commons to make their decisions in the best interests of the people of the whole of the UK and the EU, and not their own specific constituencies

[Joyce]

We got where we are because about six Prime Ministers signed a few treaties over the years. Treaties are about promises every signatory is expected to keep. The most recent European Union treaty - or perhaps the one before that, I lose track - included procedures for leaving. Those procedures include a requirement to offer the departing country a deal the terms of which the other twenty seven countries have to agree on before offering.
What's been before The House of Commons is that deal. They have to decide whether or not to accept it.

I don't recall any mention of that sort of thing in the official leaflets about the referendum. Perhaps the leaders of the various factions thought the British public were so interested we'd all already know all that ( emoticon for sarcasm needed here ).

The Commons majority so far is for not accepting the deal offered. The other countries don't want to be bothered making any changes now.What the treaties say about how to leave without accepting the deal,or even if we can, goodness knows.

Whatever is eventually decided by the Commons, if it needs to go to the Lords it can't be opposed by the Lords as (I'm guessing here) it involves a 'Money Bill'.

[Ernest]

I suspect that you are right.

At the moment a crash out without a deal seems on the cards. might impress those in favour of leave, but the evidence is that would damage our economy and that of the EU 27.

Contingency plans are all well, including calling in the Army, but that might be OK for a short time, but the longer term damage is not quantified?

I just find the entrenched positions being taken by all sides, and the whipping up of populist sentiments to be troubling.

I hope and pray for a last minute compromise which will allow a deal go go through and that both Houses of Parliament act to limit damage, not to increase it

[Joyce]

Amen to that,Ernest.

[Joe Parrish]

From across the pond, it seems an exit will damage both parties. With only a few miles between them, how can they not work together better.

Here we have a piece of a wall going up, as if that will help at all. And the army is having a minor role.

Maybe some cooler and heads will ultimately prevail.
Let's pray so.

[Pam]

Back in the day, the EU was known as the Common Market, and was about trading. I remember when I was a child the shops had a lot of goods like 'Australian cheddar' that we don;'t see any more. As I understand it, the EU as a body signs trade deals which guarantee the other party access to the whole of the EU. If it was easy for a country to withdraw, nobody would want a trade deal with the EU, because they wouldn't have a guaranteed market of the whole number of nations.

I think your view of what's gone wrong with the negotiations probably depends on your view of domestic UK politics. It seems clear that one thing that wasn't considered enough before the signing of article 50 - (which was voted for by MPs on all sides of the House) - or, in fact, before the decision to hold a referendum - is the effect of having a border with the EU on the island of Ireland. At the moment, there's free movement between Ireland and NI, and many people travel across the border to work. The economy could be seriously disrupted by a hard border. Ireland is a member of the EU, and has every right to object to the EU making new arrangements which affect its economy adversely. Maybe some other member countries agree with them. It can't all be on the UK's terms.

[Ernest]

If you were writing a book about Brexit (fiction) and you wrote about the chaotic scenario we find ourselves in now, you would be laughed out of schooel.

But the situation is grave, and needs serious discernment from those making the decisions, in our Parliament and within the EU 27. We can point our finger at whoever we like, but in the end, we need to resolve the issues with common sense and maturity, working together for peace, reconciliation and unity. Sadly, lacking in Parliament and wider in the country.

There is a serious danger to the Union of GB and Northern Ireland, with even the Welsh talking of applying for independent membership of the EU.

The time for personal and political posturing and drawing lines in the sand, are long gone. Politicians of all persuasions need to come together in the National Interest and Greater good of our country and across the EU.

I am a European, having lived in the EU for a good part of my military career, the people there, might speak a different language, but they share our humanity and we need to acknowledge that point and seek a way forward that celebrates our differences and celebrate them collaboratively for the future good of all.

[Caroline]

I just want to add that it is only the new leader of Plaid Cymru who has talked of Wales as an independent member of the EU, presumably to grab headlines at their conference last weekend. Wales has little appetite to leave GB.

[Joyce]

I just want to add that it is only the new leader of Plaid Cymru who has talked of Wales as an independent member of the EU, presumably to grab headlines at their conference last weekend. Wales has little appetite to leave GB.

True ! In fact the first time they had a referendum they voted against having their own parliament. If England ever left the UK Wales might want to do so then.

[Ernest]

I agree that it was the party seeking Wales being independent from the UK, but it demonstrates (to me) that these sentiments still persist and are sharpened by the confusion over the Brexit saga, voted down yet again in Parliament on Friday.